Legh Family History

[Judy]

I believe I am a relative of John Legh of Huncoat Manor (1443) and Sir Peter Legh, steward to the King (d. 1527?) and Sir Jonothan de Legh and Robert Lee of Martholme and Jonothan Lee (1832-1869) who was my Great, great grandfather.

There are many gaps in that Family Tree and I would appreciate any information that might help me fill in some names please.

I was raised in Cheshire, am currently staying with my parents here, but live in Iowa, USA.

Thank you.
Kind regards,
Judy (b. 1956)

[bob]

Hi, i think your mixing up the family a bit there, i will PM you to send the family tree to you.
Bob

[She]

Could you send it to me as well Bob as Im always interested in these things?

[bob]

she, i have some months back, but check your emails and spam folders.
Bob

[She]

The first Legh of Adlington, Robert de Legh, was a descendant of Gilbert de Venables, who had come to Britain with William the Conqueror. He was a Riding-Forester of the Forest of Macclesfield, Bailiff of the Hundred of Macclesfield, “Lieutenant” to Sir Thomas de Ferrers, Justice of Chester and for many years “Lieutenant of the Prince’s Bachelor”. He also sat as Justice in Eyre.

Hi Bob
Thank you for the Legh family history. As all these “Toffs” hung around in each others courts, I suspected I would have a connection with them. I have now had time to match the info you sent me to my family tree and this is what I found.
This is a LONG reply – but I hope anyone interested in genealogy will find this of interest. It also demonstrates how nepotism ruled supreme in early English politics and the habit of families marrying into the same families evolved over time. I say we are all related…just a case of proving it.

Sir Piers Legh of Lyme married Margaret Danyers of Bradley Hall. She is my Great x 20th Grandmother and lived from 1335 to 1428. Her father was Sir Thomas Danyers of Bradley Hall and as the maths tend to go, he is my Great x 21st Grandfather who lived back in 1310. So nice to know of the Bradley Hall connection as this is news to me. However Margaret Danyers was married twice before she hooked Sir Piers Legh.
Her 1st husband being Sir John Radcliffe and her 2nd husband was Sir John Savage.

My ancestry descends from Margaret Danyes 2nd of her 3 marriages to Sir John Savage who was my Great x 20th Grandfather. I don’t think I am connected to Piers Legh other than my Grannies marriage to him…..but who the heck really knows.
She had a few children with Piers Legh I didn’t know about, so that was interesting. She also lived to a ripe old age of 93- even after all those husbands.

Now this is where it gets really complicated and why working out the DNA of these gentry of yore is a darn nightmare as they all inter-married so much.
Sir Piers Legh and Margaret Danyer had a son called Sir Peter Legh, who died back in Paris in 1422. However before he died he marred Joanna de Haydock and they had a child called Sir Peter Legh (1415 to 1478). As Joanna outlived her 1st husband Sir Peter (she died 1439) to pass the time she married my 2nd cousin 22 times removed (I have software that works this all out) – Richard Molyneux. She had a daughter from this marriage – a wee girl called Margaret De Molyneux.
Now get this – her son from her 1st marriage Sir Peter Legh married her daughter from her 2nd marriage – Margaret de Molyneux. Yes- they were half brother and sister. Yuk!

Richard Molyneux’s dad was William Molyneux and he was also a Great x 21st Grandfather, although my ancestory did not come down from his son’s Richards line (thankfully). However because I am connected to Margaret by both blood and marriage she is my 3rd cousin 21 times removed as well as being my 1st cousin 20 removed in Law. You can understand all this is impossible to figure out without wizzy software.
Anyway – the ½ brother and sister had a child called Peter Legh who died 10 years before his father in 1468. Prior to this however, Peter and his wife Mabel Croft had a son – Sir Piers Legh b1455 - a fine brass to his memory can be found at Winwick church I understand. At this point – my family re-enters the Legh family tree yet again. Sir Piers married Ellen daughter of Sir John Savage who is my 17th Great Grandfather and Catherine Stanley my 17th Great Grandma.
One of Sir Piers children (Gowther Legh) founded the Grammar school in Winwick.
His other son Piers or Peter Legh -1479- 1541 -(my 7th cousin 17 times removed) married Jane daughter of Sir Thomas Gerard (my 16th great grand uncle in law).

I did suspect that my connection to the Legh family probably faded away at that point, until I found another name I recognised. The Grandson of Peter or Piers Legh, was…surprise surprise called – Sir Peter Legh who died about 1570. He was married to Katherine de Venables who was the daughter of Sir Thomas Venables Baron of Kinderton. As my Great x 25th Granddad was Baron Hugh De Venables – there was obviously a connection. I am not sure what connection as I don’t have Sir Thomas V in my family tree. However the last name I have in my family is that of William De Venables 1252 from Kinderton (23rd G Grandfather) who was the father of none other than – Thomas Daniers, who was the great grandfather of….none other than the lady we started with – Margaret Daniers.
I am not going to go into any more detail or I will get a headache, other than to say that Margaret Daniers is a great x blah blah Grandmother to both Peter Legh and Katherine Venables – so they were cousins- be it distant.

Anyway – it just goes on and on….more intermarrying and a gene pool too close for comfort. The cousins kids carried on the tradition. Sir Peter Legh of Lyme 1563 – 1635 married Margaret daughter of Sir Gilbert Gerard. You may recall that Peter Legh’s Grandmother Margaret was daughter of Sir Thomas Gerard. I haven’t plotted the relationship between the newly weds – but I’m guessing they shared the same Great Grandfather- so yet more cousins marrying more cousins. Whatever, his 2nd wife Dorothy came from one of my lot – Sir Richard Egerton – who was a great Granddad of mine from long long ago. So again- we married into the Leghs.

We vaguely touched on their line again in the early 1600’s with a marriage into my De Calveley family – but I can’t prove a connection. From around 400 years ago, my association with the Legh’s and cousins…seem to have come to an end.

Are you related to the Legh family?
Here are the other surnames (not mentioned above) who married into them –

• Bathurst
• Keck
• Vernon
• Brooke
• Leycester
• Byrne
• Benet
• Holt
• Pytts
• Hargreaves
• Pilkington
• Steynsham
• Launder
• Fleetwood
• Bankes
• Clerke
• Shippen
• Tatton
• Chetwode
• Arderne
• Chicheley
• Savile
• Fenner
• Calveley
• Bellot
• Birkenhead
• Bold
• Bellot
• Brereton
• Worsley
• Touchet
• Lathom
• Warren
• Tyldesley
• Croft
• Trafford
• Haydock
• Alcock
• Ashton
• Norley

[She]

Bit of Legh family gossip to add onto this - turns out that Legh Master (b 1604) MP for Newton - son of Elizabeth Legh and Streynsham Master was a bad, bad man - he ran a forge and killed two people (believed to be slaves) by burning them alive in said forge. He was buried three times - the first two times his body somehow rose up out of the ground. The third time he was interred beneath this stone slab. Local folklore has conflicting stories of how the heavy stone marker cracked - some say it was struck by lightning. Others say that Legh Master split it when his spirit escaped the grave...

Legh Master.jpg

[She]

Okay – so I give up and I am related to the Legh’s then, but very very distant cousins. Not that the 2 words “distant” and “cousin” holds much water in this ye olde society of inter breeding.

I share a common ancestor with the Legh dynasty. It is Gilbert De Venables born around 1030 and Gilbert is my 28th Great Grandfather. He is also a Grandfather to the Legh family as well. Yea- they are cousins (back off boys)!

Gilbert De V may have had many sons/ daughters- but the ones I am concerned with are –

a) The next Gilbert De Venable – who is my direct ancestor and then….
b) Hamon De Legh – who was granted West Hall (according to Omerod) and took the name Legh from the place called High Legh. So the name continued thus…..

So - The Leghs of Newton are Norman Barons who are really called Venables (after the French town) and came over with William C in 1066. The “Venable Arms” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.

William De Legh was his son and then blah blah – so it continued. Anyone really really interested in this can look at http://todmar.net/ancestry/legh_main.htm

All Normans who came over on a boat and pubs came after that!

To the person who first made this post - I think you may be related (like who isn't) - let me check and I will get back to you.

[bob]

She, i have the book The House of lyme, of which i found the family tree, i have found it in PDF form on the internet, that has saved me scanning it, its 94 meg and i think it will give you a lot more information, i am reading it now, and thinking that when they mention Bruche, they could be talking about our bruche not the one in warrington, the same with Bradley as it mentions the Bradley in Appleton by name, anyway here is the link - http://www.archive.org/details/houseofl ... 00newtuoft
Bob

[She]

You could be right about Bruche Bob - but as regards Bradlegh/ Bradley - I came across another similar spelling for this that could be the same place or elsewhere....

JANE - I think I sent you a PM so I hope you pick this up. The surname of Lee, Leigh, Lea and Legh are fairly common ...and I think (don't hold me to this) it is a Saxon word for "settlement". As such, you can see why it is such a common surname and place name. My own Grans name was Florrie Lee - bless her, and I was born in Leigh. Got tons of varients of the name in my family tree, as I bet most people do.

As the former post's indicate - Legh was an adopted name for some of the Venables family who adopted it from a nice place (that still exists and has a super Garden centre) called High Legh in south warrington. News to me as I only learned this today. However - if you have found that one of your ancestors was connected to Royalty, then that indeed smacks to me of Norman dna and the Legh Barons. Dig deeper and please let us know what you find...

[bob]

She, here is a link to a post i made some time ago about the 2 Bradley Halls,
http://newton-le-willows.com/history/vi ... dley#p7171
Bob

[She]

I went to the Disability awareness day today at Walton Gardens. You may not be interested to know that my husband wanted to use the loo and not wanting to avail himself in the nearby portacabins. asked if he could go to the toilets in Walton Hall itself. We were actually the 1st couple ever to be married in Walton Hall in its history, as it was licensed for such civil services something like 12 to 13 years ago....whenever it was we got married. We havent been back there since, so it was a bit of a trip down memory lane today. Awww...

Anyway, walking up the grand staircase (that I recalled so well as the first ever bride in the place) - who did I see hanging up up on the wall but a portrait of Piers Legh of Bruche who died in the early 1600's....I think it said 1625. I always have my camera on me - but alas not today so I can't share Piers portrait with you. Next time maybe? However lots of other fascinating local charectors of olden days hanging up on the wall of Walton Hall, so if anyone gets a chance - worth a visit. I think the chap looking after the place didn't believe me when I said Piers was a distant cousin....but by marriage only (he was ugly so I didn't want a dna connection)! Lovely place though...Piers and all!

[She]

I guess it is possible the portrait at Walton Hall was of this Piers Legh.

The cousins kids carried on the tradition. Sir Peter Legh of Lyme 1563 – 1635 married Margaret daughter of Sir Gilbert Gerard. You may recall that Peter Legh’s Grandmother Margaret was the daughter of Sir Thomas Gerard.

I suspect that Piers is on some of my wedding photos as I had so many taken on that grand staircase. I shall have to get the album out...

[bob]

She, why would a picture of Piers Legh be in that hall, it was only built in 1830,
i wonder if items from Bruche hall have been transfered to there, i must pop along and have a look
thanks for the info.
bob

[bob]

Hmm seems to be a mix up in Waltons here, you said Walton Gardens, that is in Warrington,
did you not mean Walton Park in Liverpool near to Sefton where there is a Legh connection -
Walton Hall Park
Walton Hall Park dates back to 1199, when Henry de Walton was steward of the West Derby Hundred,
Bob

[bob]

Just had to do a bit of digging,
first here is the Piers connection,

ptree.jpg

That is the Molyneux connection by second marriage, Thomas Legh i presume was Piers brother,
Then a clip from the Legh History book,
Now here is a bit about the Molyneux family seat,

The moated site of the ancient house of the Molyneux family lies
to the SE of the church (at Sefton), but nothing remains above the
ground of the buildings finally dismantled in 1720. Part of it was
standing till 1817.
The remains of the ancient moat of the old Hall stand in a field
below the church. The old Hall stood on that site as early as 1372.
From fragments still remaining sunk in the earth we were able to
identify a 14th century mullion and a large jamb stone of late
16th century. It seems to have existed as a farmhouse till 1817 and
was of stone, covered with ivy, of one gable approached by a flight
of stairs. A chapel was attached to the hall and was used down to
1780 when it was dismantled.
And here is an idea of where it was,

*there has been about 6 digs on the site since 1914
and finally the church,
Church of St Helen, Sefton. W tower and E bay of N chapel early C14.
W bay of N chapel C15. Otherwise c1535-40. Spire pinnacles probably
C17 or later. Grade I. Full account in Listed Buildings volume. (2)
So she if your popping back that way to take a picture, could you call into the church at Sefton and get one of Joannas tomb!